On YouTube, communications expert Chris Miller goes through the Trump-Mamdani Oval Office meeting and describes his view of how each politician handled framing, seizing initiative, dodging conflict, etc.
You don't have to buy into every single idea the communications expert has, to benefit from this magnifying-glass view of the dialog. Watch it online - 15 minutes - or I've included a transcript below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju0URMztrzs
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Transcript from Rev.com from link.
Chris Miller:
Okay, no one would expect this, but President Trump and
New York City Mayor like Mamdani just met in the Oval Office at the White
House. And the presentation they just gave to the media and the question and
answer portion was surprising.
It was a communication showdown. So in this video, we're
going to break down the dynamics, the framing, the use of humor, and how what
we expected was much different than what we got.
I'm going to show you a lot of different clips. I'm going
to pause often, so just stick with me. Before we start, let's think about
what's been going on. So the past few months, both Trump and Mamdani have been
going at each other's necks. I just did a reaction video to Mamdani's victory
speech, and here's some of the things you said.
Zohran Mamdani:
After all, if anyone can show a
nation betrayed by Donald Trump, how to defeat him, it is the city that gave
rise to him. And if there is any way to terrify a despot, it is by dismantling
the very conditions that allowed him to accumulate power. So Donald Trump,
since I know you're watching, I have four words for you. Turn the volume up.
Reporter:
Did you see his victory speech?
Donald Trump:
By the way, it's literally never worked. Yeah, I thought
it was a very angry speech, certainly angry toward me, and I think he should be
very nice to me. I'm the one that sort of has to approve a lot of things coming
to him, so he's off to a bad start.
Reporter:
At one point he says, "Turn the volume up." How
do you respond to that? Does that affect anything you're going to do?
Donald Trump:
It's a very dangerous statement for him to make.
Chris Miller:
So with what we would perceive as tensions being high,
let's see how this starts. But before we do that, could you quickly like this
video and subscribe to the YouTube channel? I have a new analysis every Monday
and Thursday so that you can learn how to communicate in the world's biggest
moments.
Donald Trump:
Well, thank you very much. We've just had a great
meeting, a really good, very productive meeting. We have one thing in common.
We want this city of ours that we love to do very well. And I wanted to
congratulate the mayor. He really ran an incredible race against a lot of smart
people, starting with the early primaries against some very tough people, very
smart people. And he beat them and he beat them easily, and I congratulated
him.
Chris Miller:
Trump starts us off with a status hug. A status hug
is when a dominant person gives off so much more and so much praise that
ultimately it gives them control. First, he introduces Mamdani as a big success
and he ultimately narrates the success of his campaign. And in communication,
typically, the narrator is the one who holds the power. He's the one with the
pin. So with all of this praise, it seems like, oh wow, that's really nice. But
in high power settings, praise is an example of positional power by saying
Mamdani beat him out easily, it puts Trump as the judge. By saying, "If
Mamdani does really good, then I'll be even more happy." That puts him as
the evaluator. It's these little framing tactics.
Donald Trump:
But I just want to congratulate. I think you're going to
have hopefully a really great mayor. The better he does, the happier I am, I
will say. There's no difference in party. There's no difference in anything.
And we're going to be helping him to make everybody's dream come true, having a
strong and very safe New York. And congratulations, Mr. Mayor. Thank you, Mr.
President.
Chris Miller:
For instance, you may have been surprised whenever Trump
said there's no difference in political parties, there's no difference in
anything when factually that isn't true. There is a lot of difference. But what
that does is it sets the frame of this is apolitical, this is harmonious, and
it removes the oxygen from this room full of reporters who are going to bring
up all these attacks of like, "Didn't you just say that thing last week?
Or didn't you say that thing a month ago?" And this is something expert communicators
do so well. They set the frame so that if anybody goes against it, that person
is going to seem combative.
Zohran Mamdani:
Thank you, Mr. President.
Donald Trump:
Thank you.
Zohran Mamdani:
I appreciate it.
Donald Trump:
Please.
Zohran Mamdani:
I appreciated the meeting with the
President. And as he said, it was a productive meeting focused on a place of
shared admiration and love, which is New York City and the need to deliver
affordability to New Yorkers, the eight and a half million people who call our
city their home, who are struggling to afford life in the most expensive city
of the United States of America.
We spoke about rent, we spoke about
groceries, we spoke about utilities, we spoke about the different ways in which
people are being pushed out. And I appreciated the time with the President. I
appreciated the conversation. I look forward to working together to deliver
that affordability for New Yorkers.
Chris Miller:
Mamdani starts with a lot of strategy rather than
accepting the frame that Trump has set. He accepts hospitality, but he pivots
the frame. He first says, "I'm grateful. I'm glad I get to talk with the
President," but he doesn't mimic the over the top praise that Trump uses
because he wants to be perceived as independent from the President. He is a
lower power figure in this power situation, but he doesn't want to seem like he
can be co-opted by Trump. So he's going to say thank you to Trump, but he's not
going to give Trump all of this praise back or he's not going to echo the
praises that Trump gave him like, "Yeah, I did beat him easily. And, yeah,
I am going to save New York."
And something that you see Mamdani do really well here is
absorb and redirect. Immediately, he talks about affordability. So Mamdani
isn't going to come into this conversation with a big personality. He's going
to come into the conversation with the logic, the numbers, and the stories. He
doesn't want to set the frame of, "Hey, we're best friends." And,
"Hey, we're going to enjoy working together this whole time." He
wants to be gracious, leader-like, reduce friction, but he doesn't want to seem
as if he's tied to the hip of Trump.
Now, when question and answer starts, that's when you can
really see the dynamics and all of the strategic moves that the both of them
make. The reporters know that there's a lot more than they're putting on, so
they begin to ask very pointed questions like this one.
Reporter:
Mr. Mamdani, it sounds like you had a productive
discussion, but just days ago, you referred to President Trump as a despot who
betrayed the country. He said it would be his worst nightmare and accused him
of having a fascist agenda. Are you planning to retract any of these remarks in
order to improve the relationship?
Chris Miller:
The reporter asks, "You referred to President Trump
as a despot, accused him of a fascist agenda. Are you going to retract?"
Now, this is a trap question. There's 99 ways to answer this and 98 of them are
going to get you in hot water. If you retract, you look weak. If you double
down, you look combative. If you evade or dodge the question, then it looks
like you are avoiding something and scared to approach it, but Mamdani does
something very strategic here.
Zohran Mamdani:
I think both President Trump and I,
we are very clear about our positions and our views. And what I really
appreciate about the President is the meeting that we had focused not on places
of disagreement, which there are many, and also focused on the shared purpose
that we have in serving New Yorkers. And frankly, that is something that could
transform the lives of the eight and a half million people who are currently
struggling under a cost of living crisis with one in four living in poverty.
And the meeting came back again and again to what it could look like to lift
those New Yorkers out of struggle and start to deliver them a city that they
could do more than just struggle to afford it, but actually start to live in
it.
Chris Miller:
Mamdani says in response, "We are very clear about
our positions and our views, the meeting focused on our shared purpose, lifting
8.5 million New Yorkers out of struggle." So this is very strategic by
him. He doesn't repeat the charged word fascist. He doesn't retract what he
says. Rather, he instantly pivots back to this focus of affordability and he
reframes it. So in doing this, he lowers the temperature in the room. Now, what
we'll see later on, they're not going to let that go, but in the moment, it was
a really good opportunity to reframe and that's what he did.
Reporter:
I want to clarify your answer to Steven Nelson. He asked
about your comment calling the president a fascist and your answer was,
"Both President Trump and I have been clear about our positions and our
views." Are you affirming that you think President Trump is a fascist?
Zohran Mamdani:
I've spoken about the-
Donald Trump:
That's okay. You can just say yes.
Zohran Mamdani:
Okay. All right.
Donald Trump:
It's easier. It's easier than explaining it. I don't
mind.
Chris Miller:
And this is one of the best things that Trump does in the
meeting, because he immediately collapses the tension with humor. He also
signals emotional superiority of like, "Hey, I've been called much worse
things. Honestly, that doesn't even bug me at all." Unbothered. He does
something very important here and that's protecting Mamdani from having to
answer directly.
Mamdani would have redirected back to affordability
somehow, but he says, "Hey, don't worry about it." And it signals
confidence and it again gives him this chance to reframe through levity. He
establishes dominance. So a great example how two different tools, both Mamdani
and Trump are doing two different strategies to bring the energy down and make
this seem like a much more harmonious event and a win for the both of them.
Another really big way that the reporters try to trip both of them up is
comments about ICE.
Reporter:
Mr. President. You threatened to send federal troops to
New York City. You both have differences when it comes to ICE agents of New
York City. Mr. Mamdani, you've called ICE a rogue government entity. I wonder
how you'd reconcile your differences on both of those issues.
Donald Trump:
Well, I think we're going to work them out. And I think
that if we have known murderers and known drug dealers and some very bad
people, we want to get them out. And the Mayor wants to have peace. We
discussed this at great length actually, maybe more than anything else. He
wants to have a safe New York. Ultimately, a safe New York is going to be a
great New York.
If it's not safe, no matter how well we do with pricing
and with anything else, we can talk about anything you want. If you don't have
safe streets, it's not going to be a success. So we're going to work together.
We're going to make sure that if there are horrible people there, we want to
get them out. I think he wants to get them out maybe more than I do, so we'll
work together. We discussed it at great length.
Chris Miller:
This is classic Trump framing, because he's shifting the
topic from ICE into crime. Talking about ICE in this moment may be
controversial, but talking about eliminating crime is not controversial. It's
something everybody wants. So he reduces the tension again, again, again.
"Hey, this doesn't need to be a conflict. We're on the same page here. We
both want to reduce crime." And as you notice, he says we, and he speaks
from Mamdani. He wants it even more than I do maybe.
Zohran Mamdani:
We discussed ICE and New York City
and I spoke about how the laws that we have in New York City allow for New York
City government to speak to the federal administration for about 170 serious
crimes. The concerns that many New Yorkers have are around the enforcement of
immigration laws on New Yorkers across the five boroughs. And most recently,
we're talking about a mother and her two children, how this has very little to
do with what that is.
Chris Miller:
And when Mamdani speaks about this, he speaks with a lot
of precision, but he also reframes this. He says, "New York City can
coordinate with federal agencies for 170 serious crimes," so he's
co-opting that crime frame. But he's also saying the concern is around
enforcement on New Yorkers, and he gives example of a mother and her two
children facing immigration enforcement. So what he's doing here by sharing
that story is he's changing the frame away from crime and towards families.
Trump frames ICE as removing murderers, while Mamdani
frames ICE as traumatizing citizens and their families. So he avoids debating
Trump directly because that would take a hit on his persona in this moment. He
doesn't say you're wrong or I'm actually right here, but he does change the
lens, which is strategic. And then you see Trump double down again talking
about ICE, he says ...
Donald Trump:
What we did is we discussed crime more than ICE per se.
We discussed crime and he doesn't want to see crime and I don't want to see
crime. And I have very little doubt that we're not going to get along on that
issue.
Chris Miller:
Well, we discussed more than ICE was crime. He doesn't
want to see crime and I don't want to see crime. We discussed this at great
length. So he's changing it again. He's reasserting this frame of crime equals
ICE or ICE equals crime. And you don't want crime, you actually want safety, so
we need to take action and make decisions on this. So neither Mamdani or Trump
are accepting one another's frame, but they're not openly disagreeing, which is
good for the both of them. So they're tactically talking while tactically not
talking.
Zohran Mamdani:
... the time with the President. I
appreciated the conversation. I look forward to working together to deliver
that affordability for New Yorkers. That came back to the same issue, cost of
living, cost of living, cost of living. We heard them speak about cost of
living. We focused on that same cost of living, and that's where I am really
looking forward to delivering for New Yorkers in partnership with the President
on the affordability agenda. And I know there might be differences about
ideology, but the place of agreement is the work that needs to be done to make
New York City affordable. That's what I look forward to. We focused on
affordability. We focused on the cost of living crisis. What I will say is that
I am very much interested in property tax reform.
Reporter:
Mr. President, you say you love New York City. Mr.
Mamdani, does New York City love President Trump?
Donald Trump:
New York City loves a future that is affordable.
Chris Miller:
And ending with one of the most impressive things, and
that's Mamdani's affordability message and his discipline to the message. He
keeps going back to it over and over again. He says, 8.5 million New Yorkers,
he drops stats. He talks about cost of living. He talks about rent, groceries,
utilities. He talks about how all of these people are struggling to afford life
in the most expensive city.
So to him, he knows that affordability is the safe zone.
If he can go throughout this whole entire conversation and make affordability
as the thing that he's remembered for, then it's a victory. Trump talks about
his victories and talks about the things he's done and how he's done really
well and how the last president's not done as well. And Trump talks about how
Mamdani's done really well and how Mamdani's going to make New York City great.
Mamdani doesn't do any of that. He talks about
affordability. He talks about his values. A very intentional decision, because
ultimately, he doesn't want to get in the hot water, but he also doesn't want
to be perceived as someone who folded under pressure and who changed. So it's
really impressive the discipline of the message. Repetition, repetition,
repetition. The more you repeat something, the more likely you're going to be
remembered by that, and it's really good for you to be remembered by your core message.
So despite all of the questions coming in, if you can
pivot, if you can absorb and if you can reframe back to your core message,
that's a plus. Overall, I think this was a great conversation and I think it
was a great instance of seeing how people reframe in high power situations and
how they're incredibly attentive to detail to make sure they're not doubling
down on something they don't want to be associated with while also changing the
direction and going back to their core message and their core strategy.
I did an analysis over Tucker Carlson and Putin.
You can watch that video next. And be sure to subscribe to the channel if you
like moments like this and you like analysis and you want to learn how people
communicate in the biggest moments in the world. As always, I'll see you next
time.
